Dave's Tirade

Please discuss Obedience Training for Competition here.....

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Postby Dave » Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:54 pm

Interesting food for thought, some rescue Border Collies are drop outs that couldn't perform obedience to their owner's high standards. So instead of being a loving pet, they are giving up for adoption.


Tirade time :roll: . I wish we could give up these stupid owners for adoption . People *@#$ me off . Anyone who would give up their Brittany for not hunting , Border Collie for not winning obedience competitions shouldn't be allowed to own dogs :evil: . I rescued more than 6 Brittanys from a Utah shelter from a breeder that dumped them because they didn't meet his criteria for gun dog training :x . This is reprehensible . :?

On a positive note all were adopted and are living happily ever after and several are super hunting dogs . 8) Dave
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Postby swillow66 » Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:21 pm

I wish we could give up these stupid owners for adoption
My thoughts exactly!!

Sadly, with Border Collies, they are genetically trained to attach themselves to one person (listen to the shepherder). I can't imagine what this must do to their self-esteem!

To me it is a failure of a trainer not to recogonize what method works for their dog. Obviously the Utah breeder didn't want to take the time or change their methods to make a good gun dog!!
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Postby Rachelle » Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:40 pm

This may be what happened to our Henry. We are working on finding him an only dog home. For anyone that doesn't know the whole story, see the subject "Folks, adopter needs help" under Behavior topics. The ID coordinator invited us to a hunt test on Saturday to see if Henry had any hunting aptitude. Henry is a hunter. The ID coordinator's husband hunt trains their Brittanies and thought that Henry's behavior when he finds the birds indicates that he was probably field trial trained too hard with a shock collar. His guess was that someone screwed Henry up and then didn't want to do the hard work it would have taken to "fix" him. :evil:
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Postby Lisa » Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:46 pm

I wish we could give up these stupid owners for adoption


Ya know, it just boggles my mind the way some folks think of dogs! Totally a throw-away mentality.

I've got a very good friend with working Border Collies (she's the one that helped me decide Britty is part BC). If one of her BC's won't herd, he's certainly not dumped in a shelter. He'll be neutered, and trained to do something else...even if it's just laying around the house (not that a BC could do that!). Heck, she does BC and Golden Retreiver rescue (and some coonhounds too)! Any dog that she produces from a breeding is "hers" for life, regardless of where they go or what they do. If a person that buys one of her dogs can't care for it, or it doesn't herd as expected, she will take it back at any age and it becomes a member of her family.

These "breeders" that just dump pups at shelters because they don't perform as expected totally get me going. Buster's a result of this...he was sent to an online auction because he had an overbite and the "breeder" didn't want him. Good Lord, be responsible for what you produce...find a pet home for a dog that won't work or look as intended...don't overwhelm the system with more pup!

Grrrr...Sorry...I didn't mean to rant on this thread...I've just seen both sides of breeding, and the responsible breeders take such great care of their dogs...for life, and the irresponsible ones should not only have all their dogs neutered, they should be themselves. Okay, done now. Sorry.
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Postby Dave » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:10 pm

Adele ,
Sorry about hijacking your thread . Maybe Barb can cut off this at my first reply and put it as a new one , named "Dave's Tirade" . :lol: Dave
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Postby Barb Wright » Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:03 pm

Dave wrote:...cut off this at my first reply and put it as a new one , named "Dave's Tirade" . :lol:


Tah-Daaah :!: Done :lol:
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Postby Dave » Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:53 pm

Thanks Barb . I felt bad hijacking a perfectly good thread with my Tirade . :roll: :lol: Dave
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Postby adele » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:08 am

Dave, I found your tirade very interesting. In fact, the first Brittany I ever met was the nicest dog and one of the reasons I picked this breed. She was a great dog and I couldn't believe it when the owner said that if she failed at some field trial or other he was going to get rid of her. I was blown away! We moved to another city so I don't know her fate. I always wondered.
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Postby Natalie » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:42 am

These "breeders" that just dump pups at shelters because they don't perform as expected....be responsible for what you produce...don't overwhelm the system with more pup!


Sad thing #1 is - that breeder doesn't even recognize it as their problem and probably has little regard for the "betterment of the breed". They'll continue to experience the same results from who/how they breed b/c they will continue to breed just like they always have no matter what the result. And so will continue to drop off pups at the shelters. Very, very sad. :cry: All breeders aren't like that, I know, but to those who are :evil: ......shame, shame, shame!

the owner said that if she failed at some field trial or other he was going to get rid of her.


Sad thing #2 is - when the competition becomes more important than the dog (or other animal), their quality of life and well-being. I've met (fortunately only a few) competitors who seemed to have forgotten completely that they were working with a "live being". :x You see it in the horse-world, too. Heck, some even treat their own kids that way! Again, not all competitors, but I'm so sickened by those who can't see the forest for the trees in regards to what life is like for the animal. Makes my heart ache.

And that's my tirade..... :wink:
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Postby Karen_P » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:04 am

The practice of breeders rehoming dogs that don't cut it is a very common thing, and if a dog is rehomed in an appropriate fashion, I don't completely disagree with it (don't shoot me!). I certainly don't agree with breeders dumping dogs on rescue because they're not show quality. BUT I'm not opposed to breeders re-homing dogs that are incapable of being proven in the appropriate venues.

This is what many good breeders do...they keep what they suspect will be the best puppy in a litter, raise it, train it, show it, field trial it, agility or obedience train it, and if the dog doesn't shine, they're removed from the breeding program and rehomed. This is how breeders who strive to improve the breed work. Many do this specifically to see if a breeding is worth repeating.

In the long run, the breed does benefit from the decisions the breeders make, so don't be so hard on them.
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Postby kat » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:15 am

The difference is in the ones who "rehome in an appropriate fashion" vs the ones who "dump". Some of the best pets out there are ones who weren't cut out for the particular venue the breeder bred for, and so became pet dogs (altered, of course!). I think most of us will actually agree with you rather than shoot you!! It's those darn other breeders we'd like to shoot!
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Postby Lisa » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:21 am

It's those darn other breeders we'd like to shoot


Correction...it's the puppymillers, BYB's and irresponsible breeders I'd like to shoot!!

Responsible breeders who work to better the breed, and realize that not all dogs are suitable for breeding are great, in my book. They are the ones that alter the dogs that are not an excellent example of the breed, and then responsibly place them in pet homes...not rescue or shelters. Generally, these breeders are also involved in rescue themselves.
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Postby kat » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:25 am

Yep, those were the "other breeders" I meant!!
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Postby CJ » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:08 pm

[quote="Lisa
Ya know, it just boggles my mind the way some folks think of dogs! Totally a throw-away mentality.
[/quote]
Not suprising when we throw babies and old people away, use the children that make it past the abortion clinic for toys (see that dateline special on child preditors).... I'll cut off my rant there before I dip over into politics.

Dave, you know the really stupid part about nitwits dumping non hunting dogs.... is that its usually not the dogs fault. It's that the person either doesn't know how to help/train their dog or doesn't know what a good trainer looks like to send the dog off for professional help.
I'm gonna go have a doughnut and calm down, but before I do, we should ammend the addoption contracts & breeder contracts to state that if they abuse the dog or return them for ignorant reasons that they agree to be "fixed" themselves to prevent propogating their ignorance into the world. Just my less than humble oppinion.
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Postby swillow66 » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:10 pm

Hooray for Dave's Tirade!! :lol: :lol:

The really sad thing, is there ARE really good breeders who do love their dogs and spend a lot of time, money and effort trying to improve their lines. And terrible breeders give the good ones a bad rap!

Just as there are bad breeders there are bad owners not doing the reserch needed BEFORE purchasing a pup. Now that thread would call for an entirely different tirade!!
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