teaching recall

[adele]

Trip was finally allowed off-leash on my parents' farm this weekend and he didn't high-tail it to Missouri!!! He actually came back to me when I called him, much to my amazement. AND he actually held a point (and he was beautiful, even if I'm biased). What a weekend for him! So cool.

That's fantastic. How have you been training him? How old is he? How long have you been working on it?

[Natalie]

I've been training him ever since I got him, which was just over a year ago. He's about 3 and a half years old. He did really well at recall for a while there, then got really bad about it. He ignored me and would basically come when he felt like it, which was about half of the time. Sometimes, he'd run off and wouldn't come to me, but would at least stop and let me catch him.

I really was proud of him this wknd though - and so, SO scared!!! I think what has helped is that when I've walked him (over the last few months) and he gets distracted by something and tries to head off in another direction, I've started telling him to "come this way" - meaning "look where I'm going and head that way". This weekend, when he would start to get too far away from me (more than 30-50 ft) or would head off towards the road (yikes!), I'd tell him to "come this way" and he'd take off like a bullet toward me.

Only a few times did he actually "come to me", but I could tell that he was at least paying attention to where I was and where I wanted him to be. I specifically asked him to come to me only about 5 times - he responded appropriately twice, I think. The other three, he came close to me (within 2 ft) but not really "to" me. He may have been picking up on my nervousness though. Who knows?! I'm just glad I didn't have to go hiking over the countryside looking for him! Oh, I would have been just SO devastated!!

I wish I'd had a camera handy to capture his point. He was just beautiful. Paw tucked tight and you could have layed a yardstick from his nose to his tail. His body was so straight and stiff - he was so intense! He'll tuck that paw occasionally when he's checking something out, but he's never pointed like this before. What an obvious difference - you knew that he knew what he'd found! And he wanted that bird, which was apparent when seconds later he took chase....LOL

[adele]

Well, that sounds really great. I would never have the guts to let Lola off leash if there was a road within miles of me.

Lola knows "this way" and if I change direction and call she'll zoom off in the direction I indicated. She's good at that - its the zooming that needs conquering. Lola ranges about 200 to 300 yards. She covers 30 to 50 feet in one second, faster than I can say "Come".

I'm jealous. I'd like to let Lola off leash in a park or something but no way. I've been looking into an electric collar but can't find anyone in the area who knows how to teach using them. Everyone trainer I ask just shuts down. Those things are really frowned upon around here.

[Natalie]

Oh, I understand. Fortunately, my parents live on a farm in the middle of nowhere on a little 2-lane highway. The traffic is fast, but not frequent. Trip will zoom some, too, but we've been working on "easy" to slow him down a little bit.

And I must confess, I didn't have the guts to let him off leash. My dad took him outside with him - the first time w/out my knowledge and the second time w/ me in the house refusing to even watch through a window - certain I'd see my baby heading for the hills. When he returned, I finally worked up the nerve to let him out for brief walks that eventually got longer and up to greater distances from the house. More than the road - I was worried he'd try to tangle with one of the cows, which he finds exciting, and get kicked in the head.

I would never let trip off-leash in one of our city parks (we don't have dog parks). They are surrounded by way too much traffic. I really don't have him off-leash much around the house, either, due to traffic.

If you do want to use an e-collar, I'm sure there have to be a few books and/or videos that will give you some instructions. You could also probably do some phone consults with a good trainer who could explain to you what you need to do, look for, etc. What I keep hearing is to always have them in your sight, always start with the lowest setting working up only if needed and stop the correction as soon as they start to respond. You may not want to try it all on your own, but perhaps there are some other options for you? Maybe a brief/weekend vacation near a trainer somewhere else who'd be willing to help you?

[Catharina]

its the zooming that needs conquering. Lola ranges about 200 to 300 yards. She covers 30 to 50 feet in one second, faster than I can say "Come".

Sounds like Lola and Kibo could have a blast! That's excactly what used to drive me nuts about him (and sometimes still does). My husband calls it "tele-porting": You think he went into the woods that way, just one second ago; you call in that direction, and Kibo magically re-materializes at two hundreed yards distance the other way..... . Sometimes I do feel like there must be two of him (scary thought!).

I finally put a bell on him, so that I at least have an idea about his whereabouts. And I never let him off leash except in one special spot waaaay away from the highway, people, cars etc. He is so beautiful to watch as he blasts through the woods, a couple of times a week I just have to give in and let him.....

[Natalie]

Teleporting - oh that's cute! And I know what you mean, too!

They are so gorgeous when they are running and leaping at such high speeds. Trip has such a crooked walk, but when he's in a dead-run - he looks incredible. And he's having such fun! I'll bet they'd all have a blast together. Too bad we couldn't have a regional get-togetehr somewhere (no way I could swing a trip to CA for the annual picnic). What fun we'd all have (people AND dogs).

[adele]

Lola is a great teleporter!

I let her run full out on weekends miles away from cars in an old quary where I can keep my eye on her. There are woodland trails but she just goes too far and sometimes there are people on horseback - I don't want Lola scaring horses. She looks great when she's running too. She is made to run, she has so much fun. Sigh, I just wish there were more safe places for her.

[Catharina]

Sigh, I just wish there were more safe places for her.

Hang in there, Adele. I think there will be more of these safe places, over time -- I truly think that you will make her a safer dog by continuing your positive training.

Because of Kibo's aggression issues, I'm not sure if he is ever going to be the kind of dog I can let off leash in any place other than the one I've found so far. But I do now have hope that he can be recall trained to be very reliable; it will just take a few years of consistent, patient, and smart training. Maybe we just have to be patient with our "speed demons" and look for small signs of progress.

The other day, I was very proud of Kibo: We have been working on what I call "chipmunk recalls". I whistle, if he doesn't "materialize" within thirty seconds or so, I walk up to him (I can find him easily because of the bell) and call from a distance where I think I have a true chance of getting his attention. If he doesn't look up and come, I walk up next to him (even if I have to crawl through ditches or thorn bushes) and call him again. If he doesn't respond I clip his leash on, say "time to go" (his "no more sniffing" signal on leash-walks), and haul him away as gently as possible. If he responds when I call the first time, he gets treats and I let him go back to the chipmunks. If he responds when I stand next to him, I walk him away from the chipmunks with lots of treats. A couple of days ago, he came to me away from a chipmunk stump when I called from fifty feet away. I may be deluding myself, but I'm hoping I'll get him to disengage and come to me at ever-increasing distances with this method....

I guess I'm saying I have those moments where I'm doubting that his recall is improving, but I think it really is a matter of time and perspective. You might not get there as fast as those people on this board who have had their dogs trained on e-collars, but as long as you are judicious about where you let her off, your positive methods are a lot safer for you to use (given that you can't find a competent trainer for the e-collar thing) -- you are at least not going to mess her up this way.

You might have Lola for another fourteen years or so -- if she can be off leash reliably for even seven or ten of those years, wouldn't that be something?

[adele]

Oh, I'm hanging in. Lola is a good dog, plain and simple. We have overcome all sorts of annoying puppy behavior. She has great manners, a few party tricks, and I'm pleased to say we are beating the pulling on leash stuff. She now walks nicely on a regular flat leash about 80% of the time. She's only 10 months old and I think she is better behaved than most of the older dogs I know.

More than any treat I can find or any game I can find, her thing is running. She loves running! I want to give her the opportunity. I haven't given up, not even close and like you say, there is plenty of time to beat this problem (meet this challenge - for the politically correct out there). We've started agility training which, I'm hoping, will help her to listen while not stuck to my side. We'll get it (that doesn't mean I'm not jealous of those who have already suceeded).

[Catharina]

She's only 10 months old and I think she is better behaved than most of the older dogs I know.

I think she's amazing! And you must be amazing, too, to have gotten her there so quickly. Her picture peeking from around the counter waiting for cheese is one of my all-time favorites.

We'll get it (that doesn't mean I'm not jealous of those who have already suceeded).

Me too!
Kibo used to play with this Colli-Lab mix pup, who had maybe five percent of Kibo's training or attention span. She'd escape and they couldn't catch her or get her to come, etc. But of course she now is one of those dogs who walks off leash downtown without the owner even having to worry about her.... . We desperately need to add a "green with envy" emoticon to this board....

[Natalie]

I guess I'm saying I have those moments where I'm doubting that his recall is improving, but I think it really is a matter of time and perspective. You might not get there as fast as those people on this board who have had their dogs trained on e-collars, but as long as you are judicious about where you let her off, your positive methods are a lot safer for you to use (given that you can't find a competent trainer for the e-collar thing) -- you are at least not going to mess her up this way.

I so agree!

And I think its important to remember that they are all individuals. *All* of our dogs have come a long way since we got them, whether that's been a year or ten years! They'll all get to where they need to be training-wise in their own time, using the techniques that work best for them (vs. the quickest/easiest). In the meantime, isn't training supposed to be fun??? [/code]

[acaila]

I have a suggestion about the e-collar.

The one I purchased about a month ago has two receivers. The one on the bottom of the neck gives the correction, and the one on the top of the neck makes noise.

It is mainly used for hunting, but it will let you know where your dog it.

One nice feature is that the noise (a beep) changes speed depending on whether the dog is moving or not. Very hand if he is just off in the brush on point instead of running around.

There was also a built-in hawk cry with mine. But as we haven't done any hunting, I turned that feature off.

The other thing, we go off leash all of the time (way before getting the e-collar). Most of our walks are in the woods, and I never have to worry about him getting too far ahead or aside. If Seamus doesn't see me for 30 seconds to a minute, he always tries to get me into view again before heading off.

The reason we got the collar is in the fields. He doesn't just go running off 300 yards away, but he doesn't respond as well and it takes multiple repetitions of the command and sometimes raising my voice for him to take notice, and I'd rather have him come to me right away if we chanced on a fox or badger or something.

[Lisa H]

All these posts about letting your Britt run is interesting. My first Britt,(a shelter rescue) would just run flat out if he got loose so when we got our second Britt, I was totally paranoid about letting her loose. But, she is a very different dog so I took her to a very very large farmers field out behind our house and let her go....she disappeared, and then appeared, came back to check in and was off again flat out...it is amazing how these dogs can run isn't it? I love to let her run but I wish she would stay closer. In fact, I don't go anywhere, I just stand by this big tree in the middle of the field while she runs everywhere. I have thought about using an ecollar but she just wilts if you even look at her the wrong way!
My friends all have dogs who can run loose and I would love to let annie go with them but the fact is she wouldn't care what the other dogs were doing, she just wants to find birds!! I can't seem to explain enough how much she likes to "hunt".
That is why I like this board so much, everyone Really understands about these dogs!

[Catharina]

Lisa H.:

I love to let her run but I wish she would stay closer.

Ain't that the truth!

One of my general dog-training books has a section on different types of breeds and their specific strengths and problems in training. I remember it said something like this about sporting dogs like Britts: "Because some of the sporting dog breeds were bred to work independently far from their handlers, they have an inbred tendency to range far. However, they are also highly trainable. They will test your patience and resolve again and again, but while you cannot do anything to restrict their "natural range", you CAN train them to come back when called..... " Sounds about right, doesn't it?

Sometimes I feel Kibo thinks his appropriate "working range" is defined as: "within a county or two" from where I am. But yesterday was one of those days when I'd swear we are getting somewhere: Kibo "re-materialized" in under thirty seconds after my whistling, six out of six times. And four out of those times, he had obviously had to "extract himself" from a chipmunk hole (judging by the color of his paws, eybrows, and togue ). Of course that means we'll probably hit one of his famous "deaf because of chipmunks on the brain" streaks next... . But for now, I'm hopeful!

[Kathy]

I was talking to an animal behaviorist yesterday about one of my fosters.

Anyway, she mentioned the "Jackpot" factor for dogs - you let the dog realize that s/he hit the jackpot & they'll be start to behave better. She explained that someone used the "Jackpot" for teaching recall. A woman got a McDonalds burger & ahead of time, hid it in a tree along a path that she & her dog usually take. Then she got her dog and they went for a walk. Her dog was bounding around & about, away from her, and she let her dog go past the hidden burger. She pulls the burger out of the tree, calls her dog back, waving the burger. Then she made a very big deal about unwrapping the burger, showing her dog, fussing, and then "JACKPOT!" the dog gets to eat the burger (in pieces of course). The result was that her dog realized that s/he hit the jackpot & that s/he better stay closer to mom/dad in case there's another JACKPOT out there. ... And the woman does the burger Jackpot every now & then to reinforce recall / staying closer.

Interesting, eh?

-Kathy