E-Collar question...

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E-Collar question...

Postby Mark » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:19 am

Ok, so now it has come down to the "range" question. I am looking at 2 collars- the Tritronics Pro200 G2, and the Tritronics Sport 80m G2. They both have the same collar, but a different transmitter.

Pro200:
18 levels of momentary stim.
6 levels of continuous
Tone
1 mile range
6.5" long transmitter + 5" antenna.

Sport 80m
12 levels of momentary stim.
6 levels of continuous
Tone
1/2 mile range
4.5" long transmitter + 3" antenna.


Now, this may, one day, if monty ever takes to it, be used for hunting (though his trainer said he was like "a man with the best shovel in the world, who doesnt know how to dig."). To start off, we will use it so that Monty can be off lead in some of the great open field areas around here, and mainly with Jen when she goes trail running. Thus, it is important for her to have the smaller transmitter to run with.

However, the smaller transmitter, only has a 1/2 mile range, whereas the larger one, has a 1 mile range. How important is this? Does 1/2 mile really mean 1/2 mile? Or is that a very optimistic estimate? Has anyone here really needed the full mile? I cant imagine letting Monty get that far away.. shrug.
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Postby CJ » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:44 am

1/2 mile does mean 1/2 mile, but..... in a pre Columbus world (flat and clear). So if you end up in dense forrest or rolling hills.... 1/2 mile gets shorter. I'd go with the 1 mile range..... Usually the cost difference isn't large enough to not do it. Plus, the extra stim ranges are handy... I change the stim levels on my Inotek almost weekly... And sometimes it's just a smidge, so if the price diff isn't crazy different, go with the 1 mile.
Oh, and I'm not sure if they're still a sponsor/donator (or what ever they're called) to ABR, Petstreetmall had been for some time the cheapest retailer BY FAR of dog electronics. I think LCS caught up to them, but wasn't cheaper, but that extra bit to ABR did it for me. They have great service too. For what it's worth.
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Postby Karen_P » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:50 am

Now, this may, one day, if monty ever takes to it, be used for hunting (though his trainer said he was like "a man with the best shovel in the world, who doesnt know how to dig.").



Oh my gosh! That sounds like Pete! Too funny.

1/2 mile range means 1/2 mile range on completely open, flat terrain, no trees, no hills, no obstructions. Tri-tronics makes a great collar, but so does DT systems, Dogtra and Innotek (their pro models), and I've been hearing really good things about SportDog collars also, so you might want to look at those brands also, to find 1 mile range with a small transmitter.

Check out www.collarclinic.com , www.lcsupply.com (their branded collar is actually made by Innotek), and www.gundogsupply.com

They have a wide range of collars and brands at widely varying prices. I bought a DT systems 7302 so that I could run 2 dogs at the same time and I really like the beeper feature so I know where the dogs are even when I can't see them. Collar Clinic sells refurb collars that they back at a discount also.

If you happen to decide on a DT collar, I might be able to hook you up with someone who sells them for less than you can buy online. I bought mine for $80 less than I could find anywhere else.
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Postby CJ » Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:01 am

Karen mentioned something that is something to think about... if you have even an incling of ever having two at the same time.... I'd get one that able to operate two collars.... something else to consider. It's a lot cheaper to add a collar to an existing system than buy a whole new system.
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Postby Mark » Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:33 am

Thanks guys!

As far as the 2-dog system, as much as I'd love to do it, after paying for the wedding, and trying to save up for a house, I just can't justify it.

That being said, I am not going to let price stand in my way when it comes to geting a quality system (up to about $400). The only concern I have about the Pro200, is the size of the transmitter. I cant see Jen running with an 11" walkie talkie in her hand.. though the sport 80 has a transmitter about the size of a typical cell phone. But again, it goes to that 1/2 mile range :roll: .

I suppose I could use that shorty antenna on the 200, which reduces its range to 2/3 mile, while cutting the overall length down to something similar to the 80m..

Decisions, decisions..

P.S.- if anyone from the message board wants to give Monty a wedding present, he is looking for a good e-collar.. ;) (J/K of course!)
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Postby CJ » Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:50 am

I'm not at all versed in the Tritronics line, but... like Inotek has transmitters that are set up for multi dog systems but you don't have to buy them with more than one collar at a time. For instance, mine is capable of 3 dogs (plus 8 remote devices), but I got it with just one collar and then added a second (but I wanted room for a 3rd). The cost difference was only like $100 bucks more than a single collar capable system with less features.
However, I remember what wedding costs are like.... and $100 is $100... And oh, you might even be able to extend the range of that 1/2 mile one by getting an extra (longer) antenna for it and just switch them when you need it. My one mile unit has the same antenna mount as the 1/2 mile one so they are interchangable... something to ask the retailer about if not Tritronics dirrectly.
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Postby JimC » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:18 am

Mark,

Last year when Ryker and I worked with a professional gun dog trainer his advice was that for training purposes the more levels of continuous correction available the better. He felt that 6 levels were not enough and suggested the TT model with 18 levels of contiuous correction and 6 of nick correction. Not wanting to spend $500 for the TT model with these levels, I opted for the Dogtra 2000 T&B which also has a beeper. My Dogtra has a reostat intensity control that works just fine for me. For off leash training I can give him a very low powered continuous correction that gets his attention without pain, which he can turn off by responding correctly. With only 6 levels of correction there may not be a level which does this. One level may be too low to get his attention and the next level up may be too high. My Dogtra is rated at one mile, too. Just my .02.

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Postby Karen_P » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:46 am

Okay, now for a shot of reality. Are you really going to feel comfortable letting Monty run 300-400 yards away from you in the woods? And if he settles down and starts using that wonderful nose of his and you start hunting over him, my guess is you're going to want him a bit closer than that (60-80 yards probably).

I bought a 1.25 mile range system because I had high hopes of training an all-age field trial dog. If I bought one for a hunting/hiking dog, I'd probably go with 1/2 - 3/4 mile range. On that note, I'd definitely check out the Sport-Dog SD-1800. Gun Dog Supply sells them for $239.

It gives you 16 levels of stim, 3/4 mile range, tone only, has a toggle switch so that you can add up to 2 additional collars in the future, the transmitter is 5.6 ounces and 7.5" with antenna. It also comes with a lifetime warranty on parts, 1 yr on labor and a 30 day money back guarantee. From everything I've heard, they're nice, quality collars with nice features at a really good price.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/sportdog-sd-1800.html
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Postby CJ » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:23 pm

The other side of the coin for that 1 mile range with a hunting dog is there are tons of different types of terrain for hunting in. Like here in Idaho, we have most all of it. I commonly will hunt in the grouse woods one day and want the boys around 40-80 yrds away and a few days later be out for pheasant and want them 40 and under, and then at the weekend be out on the high plaines for chukar and Huns and they'll be out at 1/2 mile+ or soo... so the range issue with regards to hunting really depends on what/where you're hunting.... that mile range can come in handy for hunting, not just all age training. And... even if you are only hunting at closer ranges, if the terrain is rolling, that signal boost for "1 mile" can come in really handy even though the dog is only 1/2 mile away... Just some other food for thought. But I'm kind of a boy scout about these things.... I'd rather have more than I need and not have to use it than loose a dog because the signal didn't quite make it to get his attention to turn around. But everyones situation is different, just food for thought.
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Postby Mark » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:27 pm

Thanks for the tips Jim!

I think it is probably a different philosophy on training.. what you are referring to is "escape" training. The trainer we sent Monty to, said he responded very well to momentary stimulation, and that the continuous was something to be used if he was chasing after a deer or something. Shrug.. its hard to know what is "right" (though Monty is acting like a little angel on and off lead.. so maybe I should stick to the method he was started on).
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Postby CJ » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:37 pm

Just noticed Jim's post.... and (as if I hadn't already said way more than enough) that beeper is another great function to consider. I got the TT compatible transmitter too, and the beep collars. They are invaluable in heavy cover with a pointing dog. I use them ALL the time pheasant hunting and pretty regularly in the grouse woods to keep an ear on the boys when we roll up on thick cover.... so long as you train them for the point mode first... then that paging is different.... it's an awesome feature for grouse hunters or thick cover pheasant hunting. As if you didn't already have eoungh to think about!
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Postby JimC » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:07 pm

I agree Mark, don't change training methods that are working. You could reallty screw him up. I was just commenting on my trainers methods which worked well with Ryker. We suspect a previous owner had improperly used an e collar on Ryker and our trainer adapted his training methods to him. Given his history only 6 settings may not have been adequate to find that level that was just right for him.

I share CJ's "boy scout" philosophy. I wouldn't go with a e collar with less than a mile range. The range may be a mile if you're in a parking lot or on a lake in perfect conditions. Add rolling country side, thick cover and atmospheric conditions that hinder radio wave transmissions and that range gets a lot shorter.

The beeper feature is great for keeping track of him in thick cover. He loves getting into the thick stuff even when we're out for exercise. I just turn it on from the transmitter when he heads into the thick stuff and I can keep track of where he is when he's out of sight. Also if he's ranging too far out I tap the locate button and he's learned to loop back towards me and range closer but not come back to me. A double beep means he can keep moving and a single beep gets him closer. You should be able to get him to range closer if you have a tone or vibrate mode. I don't, so I use the locate function.

BTW I seldom use the correction. Maybe once every two or three weeks.
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