Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Discussion of behavior issues, training and solutions here....

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adele
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Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by adele »

So, I arranged to have Tramp come and stay with us on a trial run to see if we can adopt him. Lola is being just awful. Tramp can't enter the room without Lolo snapping at him. She has never come even close to biting or anything like that but she growls or snaps and he backs off. He is in effect relegated to the hallway or the corner of the living room behind a chair. He's so sweet. Lola snarles and he backes off completely. When we are preparing for a walk and they have to be in close quarters Lola has him standing with his head in the corner. Its just sad. I'm thinking that no matter what I want, this may not be the best home for Tramp. I'm constantly drawn in two directions... Is this fixable or am I gonna spend the rest of our days together protecting Tramp from Lola?

By the way, Tramp is not the dog I would have expected after spending a year on his own. He is housetrained, does not countersurf, walks beautifully on leash, is happy to just relax in the house or go for walks and is very playful and friendly with strange dogs we meet on our walk. He's just a great fellow. He's a little timid with men but warms up quickly and he's afraid of cars on the street, he always heads for a ditch or hiding place when they drive by. But he's really a home lovin' dog.
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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by Cindy »

OMG - I can't believe you have Tramp after all you went through rescuing him!! Sorry I can't help with the issue betwe3en the 2 dogs. As many of us can attest, some Brittanys just don't really care for other dogs. I don' know if that's the case with Lola though and not sure what to suggest. We've always had great luck introducing new dogs to our pack (knock on wood BIG time) so I don't have any experience. But I'm sure others will chime in.
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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by Barb Wright »

Sounds like Tramp lodged himself in a small niche of your heart......well, I'd sure give it a week or two to see if Lola will relax and accept him. Try to treat them equally when they are together, but also give Lola a little one-on-one a couple times a day. She is just being territorial and bossy, and he is behaving submissively to her so she will most likely eventually see him as not challenging her place in the pack. If after a couple weeks there is no improvement in her attitude then it probably won't work out too well. That is, not the happiest situation for Tramp. But do give them some time, and the more things they do together the better.

Waiting for reports on how it goes....we know for sure YOU have the perseverance to hang in there :wink: :)
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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by Lisa »

You can work with it...there are probably times when Lola is around Tramp and not being a butt Use that and click/treat when she's behaving appropriately. Click/treat when Tramp comes in the room before she starts to snarl. Click/treat for looking at Tramp without snarling or lifting her lips or being a butt. Just watch your timing...you don't want to click snarls or lifted lips or glaring. You only want to click "nice" interactions.
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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by mkilcz »

I'm a firm believer in destiny (and happy endings!) so I would love to see this all work out between Lola and Tramp. Looking at the situation from Lola's viewpoint, her behavior is very understandable. When we brought Jack home, Rocket was pretty awful to him as well. It took about a week of Rocket's posturing and rolling Jack around outside at every opportunity before he was convinced that Jack understood exactly who was the boss. (But let me add that when they would tussle, Rocket was clearly just sending a message... I never felt like there was ever any serious intent to harm Jack.) Jack's not a dominant dog to begin with, and it sounds like Tramp isn't really challenging Lola much either, so just be patient and fair. I think Lola will eventually come around. Good luck!
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adele
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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by adele »

Well, he is such a sweetie I really have to try but my main concern has to be what's best for both the dogs and for us too... and Lola is not showing any signs of letting up ... Tramp is a bit needy (totally understandable and I'm not complaining) but Lola gets mad whenever I respond to his needs. I am trying to give her extra attention and we haven't given up our usual cuddle times. I'm trying to make sure that Lola's routine isn't interruped and she get the "best" resting places... but that makes me feel like I'm being mean to Tramp... I'm feeling a bit emotionally drained since it seems I can never make them both happy. I'll try the click/treat... that sounds like a positive thing that I can actually do rather than just acting as a body block between them.
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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by rtropeano »

I think it's a little too early to tell - need to give it some time and give conditioning a chance to work. There are a lot of tips on the www.aspca.org website about introductions, maybe those might be helpful.

Good luck!
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adele
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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by adele »

I don't know if this is going to work.

Walking is great. Ya know, I walk those two dogs together both on 16 ft. flexis with both leashes in the same hand. They walk side by side, they smell the same stinks, they almost pee on each other… Tramp is quickly learning to "wait" at intersections until I say "okay" (mostly I think by copying Lola).

The office works fine. I concentrate on my computer; Lola is in her cubbyhole under my desk. Tramp sleeps in a corner on the other side of my desk. Neither makes much noise (usually) and both enjoy saying "good morning" to the folks who come to work.

They eat side by side without any trouble. After both have finished with their bowls they go and check each other's bowl which cracks me up.

The trouble starts when it's time to relax. Tramp wants to sit on Lola's window seat – but that's been Lola's favorite spot all her life except when we settle to watch TV in the evening… then Lola always lies by the couch where I can reach down a pat her… Now, Tramp wants those prime spots. They can't be in those spots at the same time. Lola gets mad and Tramp ends up in the hall standing in the corner. I feel bad… Lola pouts if I insist she give Tramp a turn and I feel bad… It's me, I'm the problem… I always feel bad… I don't know how you two dog households work but I feel like the prize on a battlefield – any advice is welcome. If I give my attention to one the other is unhappy. If I give my attention to neither there is peace but everyone is unhappy. I WANT to cuddle and pat and croon to my dogs – otherwise, what's the point of having them.
Last edited by adele on Thu May 23, 2013 11:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by dmedric »

I don't have any solutions for you, but understand your feelings. Belle (Beagle/Brit mix, adopted 6 months after Cooper) is a brat -- if she wants my attention and I am petting Cooper, she bites at his ears or feet or barks at him. If we try and play tug with Cooper, she barks at him. Cooper is very patient and puts up with a lot from Belle. However, once in a while he gets fed up with her and "tells her off". So, even after 2 years, we are still a work in progress.
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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by britlover »

I ran into a similar issue when my Bandit crossed the bridge, and after a few months I decided to adopt another since my other Brittany Piper really missed his buddy. The new dog, Bryce, seemed so laid back and loving, and the two got along great when they were introduced. But it only took a few days for Bryce to earn the nickname "butthead" because any time I was petting Piper, butthead Bryce would butt right in and wedge himself between me and Piper wanting to get loved on. Piper would look at me with this pleading, helpless look that made me feel so bad. I thought I had made a mistake. But I have two hands, right, so I just redirect Piper to my other side and pet them both at the same time when Bryce butts in.

Then one day I realized something else was going on. If Bryce was being an attention hog, Piper would go find Bryce's favorite squeaky toy and start playing with it, squeaking and tossing it like it was the best thing ever. Of course Bryce can't stand it so he leaves me and snatches the toy from Piper and goes to the other side of the room to play with it, and Piper (and I swear I see him smiling) trots over to me to get all the loving he wants.

So, they figure it out. If Lola and Tramp are eating together and walking together then I think you can work this out. Once I picked up on Piper's trick I now will use the same tactic if I want Bryce to back off - I redirect his attention to something else that he really likes.

Good luck. I know these guys can really make you question whether you are doing the right thing or not, but I do think they just need to adjust a bit, and maybe you do to. Hang in there.
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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by MaggieRocks »

This advice comes from a professional trainer-maybe (hopefully) this will help:



Rather than giving them "turns", I'd suggest she change that up. Lola's spots are on the window seat and by the couch - okay.

As for Tramp, as the new guy he gets to have a spot of his own that isn't Lola's. She can decide where that is in the room and then teach him that that's "his". A crate would be VERY handy for this project...but a mat or bed can work too.

Since it's going well in her office - where they have their "spots" without conflict - then she's done a great job there in being clear. She can get that at home too with the same sense of clarity, rather than leaving it to the dogs to try to sort out for themselves.

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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by adele »

britlover wrote:I have two hands

I know, but my arms aren't long enough and if I can reach both dogs Lola thinks Tramp is too close.... sigh.
MaggieRocks wrote: A crate would be VERY handy for this project
Tramp has a crate (but it's too big for the room and eventually we are going to have to get rid of it -- its borrowed). He goes in and relaxes when told (I don't know his life story but whoever trained him originally did a very good job) ... anyway, last night it was time for bed and Tramp ran into the house and hopped up on the couch (which is not allowed). So I told him "off" and he happily got off crossed the room and hopped up onto the love seat. :lol: "Off" again and he hopped down and up onto the window seat... ya think he was trying to tell me he didn't want to go into the crate? :roll: :lol:

Thanks, We are trying to get everyone into their own "spots".. Trouble is Lola has the good spots and I guess I have an overactive sense of "fairness"... DH isn't any help either he's worse than I am. :roll:
Since it's going well in her office - where they have their "spots" without conflict - then she's done a great job there in being clear.
Just in the interest of honesty, Tramp picked his spot... I didn't do anything. :oops: :lol:
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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by Puddin Man »

They're "playing nice" in several key circumstances. I'd take that as the key.

Consider downplaying the contentious circumstances. Be generally affectionate with both, but tend to respond to neither when contentious.

They're OK in certain circumstances, I don't see why they can't sort the rest out for themselves, given enough time. This assumes there's no serious snapping, blood, etc.

It's great that you've been able to do what you did, and get a shot at adoption to boot. I salute you.

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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by janjan697 »

Update on these two?

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Re: Lola and Tramp, Lola is being hateful

Post by adele »

Well,..... there has never been any blood and only two "yipes".... generally, its up and down. Some days I think I made a bad mistake keeping Tramp, we had a fantastic home for him with friends who have a fun loving dog. But I didn't want to give Tramp up. Instead now he lives with Lola Queen of the Bitches. She is so MEAN! But I have seen her play with him t so sometimes I start to feel hopeful.

Last night she had him pinned to the ground with her mouth on his throat :shock: :evil: I was so mad I grabbed her harness and practically threw her into the house. I checked out Tramp and he wasn't hurt, after a minute cuddle he was bouncing around all happy again. I got Lola and the three of us went for our regular walk without incident...

I do know that it isn't all Lola's fault... he doesn't leave her alone when its clear to me that she is giving him "get the freek out of my face!" signals... He took her bone right out from beneath her the other day... wow... she went ballistic on him. I had to put a stop to that one too... I find it difficult because Lola is always the loud mean one so my instinct is to turn on her and comfort Tramp.. but Lola is not always the one in the wrong...

I play "train me" with both of them at the same time... Lola loves that and doesn't seem to mind that Tramp is playing too. We walk together and he manages to get her to play by bouncing in front of her. On the other hand, I've taken to sitting in the back seat of the car with Tramp and Lola rides in the front. If they share the backseat Lola glares at him and he ends up sitting with his face jammed into the corner of the seat and the door. (It breaks my heart).

Well, he's been neutered but his "restricted movement" is up today I had a playdate set up for him with a rottie that lives across the street (but its raining :cry: ). I will try to ensure that he gets lots of playtime with other dogs. Hopefully that will give him the happiness he needs and Lola the peace she needs.
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