constant licking herself?

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youjach
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constant licking herself?

Post by youjach »

Our Britt- 12 female is constatnly licking herself - mostly down below.

lately she will get off the couch w/ a big wet stain on the couch and her.
we thought she was just peeing- losing control but it doesn't smell like urine.

we have an appt. to take her in for her shots bordella and her DHLPP 1 yr booster- which is another question does she need that booster every year? I heard that she should only get it every other by some and some every year.

any thought s on the constant licking- we thought it was just boredom at first- lol but to have the couch wet it is getting to be a bigger issue .

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Post by Karen_P »

I would imagine it could absolutely be incontinence at her age. You might want to talk to your vet about starting her on hormone replacement therapy to see if it helps.

As for the vaccines, it all depends. If you board her at a kennel, the kennel will require the vaccine or titers showing she's covered. If you don't board her, I honestly can't justify doing vaccines yearly, except where required by law.
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Lisa
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Post by Lisa »

Maybe a Urinary Tract Infection? I'd say try and get a urine sample to take to the vet with you.
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Post by CJ »

Yup, sounds like vet time. Excessive licking tends to be (in dogs that don't have a traumatic social history) either allergies or infection.
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Barb Wright
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Post by Barb Wright »

Youjach....is the couch the ONLY place she is leaving a wet spot? That is what it sounded like in your post. It could be she is leaking just a little and is then licking the couch to clean it. But if she is having incontinent problems you would be seeing signs of it in other places, especially where she spends the night.

If she has a urinary tract infection....excessive grooming in that area sometimes is one indication of that, and it sure wouldn't hurt to have a urine culture and sensitivity test done (that is a little more comprehensive than just the usual test and would be a good idea to do...in for a penny in for a pound :wink:

In any event, she SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY VACCINATIONS until the possible medical problems have been addressed. Dogs not in good health are not supposed to be vaccinated. And actually, I would never vaccinate this dog again (except for those required by law)....if you are concerned about immunity have a titer test done. So-called "booster" shots do not increase immunity...if the dog is immune she is immune. The titer will tell you if she still has her immunity, which at 12 and having had shots all along there is no doubt she is :!:

The new protocols coming out of the veterinary teaching schools is to NOT vaccinate every year, and that after the puppy series "most" dogs are immune for life. If in doubt, titer.

You might look closely for sign of drips 'n drops other places...that may be a clue that you are dealing with incontinence. There are meds and also some natural therapies to deal with this problem. Be sure and let us know what you find out :)
RIP Sweet Cassie 4/98 - 3/13

kat
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Post by kat »

Protocol at CSU here in Colo is vaccinations every three years. When they first came out with that some years ago, I took a copy of it to my vet and he agreed. I go to one of the largest vet clinics in the state, and they say every three years now too. Do some research and stand your ground. Actually, by about 12, we stopped vaccinations altogether, on advice from our vet. I'd definitely want to know the blood work results before I gave anything. My old girl became incontinent at night only (she'd wet her bed, hugely), we used a couple of different meds, both quite successfully. But she never did the licking stuff, so that's different. We'll all be interested to hear what the vets says, and what it turns out to be.
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youjach
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Post by youjach »

I need to gt her kennel cough because we are kenneling her in 2 weeks.

I am going to ask for the titer before getting this booster-

no there are no drips anywhere- at first we thought she was having accidents but no urine smell- it is her licking constantly she gets so into it she doesn't hear a thing.

I will have her checked out this week- unfortunately around the vets are always pushing vaccs. always!! even blood tests for heartworm even though we keep them on the pills year round they want to do blood tests.
this past year they wanted me to give the heartworm pills every 15- 20 days I don't live in the woods- my dogs are in the house 70% of the time- we hardly have grass !!

So I am not dealing with up to date vets..

Barb Wright
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Post by Barb Wright »

Being a human you probably will not be able to detect urine smell except where there is a large quantity, a puddle, or at a spot that is hit often. The drips 'n drops will only be noticeable because they are wet, you'd have to have a dog nose to smell the urine.

That being said, this particular "obsession" of licking so totally focused may have to do with internal/external irritated skin, either from the excessive licking itself or from an irritant such as an allergy or infection. Check around the vulva (the external "lips") and look for dark/black scaly material or red irritated dry looking skin. The hair around the vulva will be reddish, this is normal as this a moist area :roll: It is a breeding ground for yeast, perfect conditions, warm/moist, so the black/scaly material is pretty common also. But if it is red and irritated, the constant licking may be self perpetuating it, or an allergy or infection is causing her to "cleanse" to the point of irritation. Either way you need to break the pattern.

The vet will take a vaginal swab as well as the urine sample....call them first to know at what point in the stream of urine they want the sample i.e. at the start, mid stream, first thing in the a.m. whatever. Tell them you want a culture and a sensitivity test, not just the usual urine test. Yes, it costs more, but the simple test is so inconclusive most of the time that it is money wasted. A good diagnostician will want the info from the more complete test.

When you ask for the titer test all you need is the result of a distemper and parvo test....these are the dangerous diseases, all the others are easily treated and the chances of contracting them are zilch once immunized.

As far as the kennel cough shot (which has the reputation of being worthless as it fails miserably to prevent KC), I would ask the boarding kennel if they would grant you a waiver considering the dog has had previous KC shots. Worth a try. They may understand that if you are treating the dog for a UTI, which they will have to continue for you if that is the case, that the KC shot should not be given during this period. Any dog on meds of any kind should not be vaccinated for anything...it is an assault on the immune system which is already fighting something and may be at odds with the meds.

Just some thoughts for you to consider.....

One more thing....any meds they prescribe be sure and ask for a Client Information Sheet which will spell out any adverse reactions to the drug to watch for. This is VERY IMPORTANT. Do not give any medication that you do not know the possible adverse reactions to....this is especially important with an older dog :!: And be sure to get it in writing, don't go with a verbal "no problem" answer :!:
RIP Sweet Cassie 4/98 - 3/13

Dave
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Post by Dave »

Not to get off her problem . I was wondering about a natural remedy for urinary leaking of these older spayed Brittanys ? I just got Frannie back for that reason and possibly she might have had a lower back or hip injury a long time ago . That's what a preliminary vet report said . They wanted to do 400 dollars worth of testing to rule things out . Some of these high tech bigger city vets kind of tick me off :? My vet will go as high tech as a person wants , but always keeps it simple and helps my rescue dogs at a reasonable rate . I guess in bigger vet practices they always play CYA :? Dave

Barb Wright
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Post by Barb Wright »

Dave...yes there are some "natural" remedies for incontinence that work very well for some dogs. Here are a bunch of sites to visit that cover "natural" as well as conventional:

Incontinence:

http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dincont.html
http://www.vet4petz.com/articles/urinar ... inence.htm
http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dphenylpropanolamine.html
http://www.inkabijou.co.uk/incontinence.htm
http://www.ygrr.org/doginfo/health-urin ... nence.html

See the following websites for more info on incontinence in dogs:
http://www.auntjeni.com/incont.htm
http://www.herbal-treatments.com.au/art ... nence.html
http://www.ygrr.org/doginfo/health-urin ... nence.html

Incontinence Help Products:

Here is a slightly updated list of the things that can be used to treat incontinence:

o PPA (phenylpropanolamine), decongestant, see http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... cleid=1460

o Estrogen, usually DES or Estradiol, see http://www.marvistavet.net/html/diethyl ... _des_.html and http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... cleid=1409

o Homeopathics such as Bedwetting (sold for children) and Enuraid (human), also see http://www.naturalcanine.com/html/incontinence.html and http://www.extendedyears.com/lib/40302.html#urinary

There is also one made for dogs called Leaks No More from Homeopet that some people have reported success with, see http://www.revivalanimal.com/Detail.cfm ... 0No%20More

o Uva Ursi (herbal), see http://www.metromkt.net/viable/1uvaursi.shtml

o Resource Urinary Tract Support, see http://pets.shopataccess.com/ResourceUr ... upport.htm
or if that site does not work try: http://ighawaii.com/naturallypet.html -- click on Products on the left, then Resources on the right)

o Cornsilk, see Kidni Kare at http://www.b-naturals.com/herbs.htm for an example of an herbal product for incontinence that includes Cornsilk

o Black Cohosh, see http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates/ar ... le&ID=1842

o Eliminating grains from the diet, see http://members.aol.com/addieloo/incontinence.html

o Acupuncture has helped some dogs with incontinence. If it is spay incontinence, it is said that doing acupuncture on the spay incision can be helpful.

See the following websites for more info on incontinence in dogs:

http://www.auntjeni.com/incont.htm
http://www.herbal-treatments.com.au/art ... nence.html
http://www.ygrr.org/doginfo/health-urin ... nence.html

Also see the following in the archives at K9Nutrition(and responses at the bottom of the post, where applicable):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutriti ... age/101150
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/83743
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/83734
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/81291
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/64901
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/64851
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/53508
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/52959
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/53441
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/40294
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/35742
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/34773
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/message/13475

The following observation is a quote, but I failed to record the person being quoted :oops: ....however, it is a worthwhile take on procedure.....

"It sometimes takes a little while for a vet to become convinced that incontinence really is incontinence, especially in a young or middle-aged dog. Usually we try to rule out bladder infections, bladder stones, neurologic disorders, hormonal disorders that increase urine output and all other possible causes of urinary problems that we can eliminate before giving up and accepting that incontinence is present. I can't fault this approach because most of the time I do the same thing. Often, we will try antibiotics to make sure that cystitis isn't present, then suggest X-rays of the bladder and a general lab panel to try to rule out obvious hormonal disease like diabetes. Bladder stones seem to be a relatively common cause of incontinence in male dogs in our practice. Sometimes the history is so strongly supportive of incontinence that we go right to exploring the possible causes of it first - neurologic and hormonal disorders being the most common causes of incontinence in dogs."

Dave, there may be some duplications here....I just grabbed up what I had in file on the subject. I think if you visit some of these sites you will get good information in order to make informed decisions on a protocol.

Unfortunately, it seems that incontinence is mature dogs is more often than not a result of spay/neuter....that is not to say that a really older entact dog will not develop the problem...just that it is very, very common in altered dogs, female and male. My take on it is to try the "natural" approach first, give them a chance, and if that fails, well, then move up to "modern medicine"....there really are lots of choices these days to work with the problem. If all else fails, bitchy britches should take care of the household cleanliness part of it :wink:
RIP Sweet Cassie 4/98 - 3/13

Dave
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Post by Dave »

Thanks , I'll so some reading and pass on to Frannie's adopter what I learned :) Dave

Barb Wright
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Post by Barb Wright »

Also Dave, we have had some good discussions in the past here on the MB. Use the search function and type in "incontinence"....there are quite a few hits with info from various people and their experiences :)
RIP Sweet Cassie 4/98 - 3/13

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