how is it done?

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Bernie's mom
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how is it done?

Post by Bernie's mom »

How are tails actually docked, and how are dew claws removed? I asked my vet how exactly he neutered Bernie, cuz I want to know and understand. Thanks!
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Cariboo
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Post by Cariboo »

Good question! I want to know, too. :?
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Dave
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Post by Dave »

Jess,
You really want to know :o It makes me cross my legs talking about it :lol: First off they anaesthesize them then make an incision in the sack , then snip and cauterize any bleeders , tuck and sew shut . I'm not sure about the tail docking . I have a good idea , but I won't say . I bet Barb or Helen in Nevada can tell you . 8) Dave

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Post by Karen_P »

The tails are docked in one of a few ways:

1. The pup is taken to the vet and the tail is amputated without anesthesia
2. The tail is tied with un-waxed dental floss. This cuts off circulation and it dies and falls off on it's own.
3. The tail is banded with rubber bands...same as 2...the tail falls off on it's own.

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Post by Barb Wright »

Neutering/spaying is done under anesthesia, serious surgery, but painless except for recovery.

Tail docking and dew claw clipping usually is not done under anesthetic, except sometimes a local anesthetic for the tail docking. It is plain and simple, amputation. The dew claws, not a big deal....the tail, nasty :cry: Bone removal, nerve damage.....the tail after all is an extension of the spine. The tail is surgery on a newborn. The dew claws, on a newborn, are not attached significantly except by skin and a tiny (probably microscopic) amount of beginning cartilege. The dew claws, which are vestigial toes, are usually removed within 2-3 days of birth. Later on the dew claw becomes attached with a more bony type material and removal is more of an "operation".

There are pros and cons on both of these surgerys (tails and dewclaws)....topics for hot debate wherever and whenever they come up :!: Everyone is entitled to an opinion on this subject, call it the way you see it, but do not get hostile with opposing opinions.....deal :?:

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Post by Barb Wright »

Karen: I had not heard of this tail banding....lots of years in dogs that did not have tails docked :roll: Is this a common method :?: Usual or fairly new :?:

Bernie's mom
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Post by Bernie's mom »

hehe, I got a detailed description from the vet about neutering ;) They just open 'em up, roll 'em out, snip em, stitch 'em, and send 'em home! :shock: In a nutshell....

On the dew claws tho, what do they do, cut them off at the base, or pull them out??? I can't find any info on the internet... I was wondering if they tied off the tails but that does sound kind of icky... I completely agree about how it can be a debate, and please I don't want that, I just want the info.
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Post by Karen_P »

After Blaze was born we visited with the pups several times before they were graded and we brought him home. There was one little fat pup with a tail and I asked Doc about it. He said that he was the biggest pup in hte litter and it hadn't fallen off yet. He explained that he ties off the tails with unwaxed dental floss. I asked another breeder about it because I had never heard about it and she told me she uses rubber bands instead of the dental floss.

She said she took her first litter to the vet and had the tails amputated and it was absolutely terrible....crying, screaming, defacating...she was in tears as she brought the pups home and said it was obviously quite traumatic on the pups. She said banding, in her opinion, was much more humane as the bones aren't calcified yet, and the nervous system is not fully developed. You simply cut off circulation and the tail falls off within a week or so. This is done when they're a couple of days old.

I think this is pretty standard procedure these days for experienced breeders. I'm guessing that new breeders still take the pups to the vet to be docked.

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Post by Barb Wright »

Well, live and learn :) I sure like the idea of banding as opposed to cutting the tails off....it does sound like it would be painless and still achieve what the breed standard requires. The tieing off brought back a memory to me....when I was just a girl we used to use sewing thread to tie off warts that the horses sometimes got on their noses. The wart would just die, fall off, and usually not even leave a scar.

I feel much better about tail docking thinking about it being done in this more body-friendly manner. I can see that at that early an age the banding would not be traumatic, very simple but work well.

Jessica: On a newborn the dew claw at that point in time is not really attached to the bone of the leg except by skin, but in a matter of just a week or two it will have attached to the bone with cartilage. At the age of 2-3 days it just takes a little snip, perhaps a stitch or just a dab of flour or a blood clotter and it closes right away. Mom will usually bathe the wound which is hardly noticeable within a couple days, if then. IMO clipping the dew claw on a working dog is wise as they (the dew claw) are prone to injury if a dog works a lot of rough, brushy, irregular terrain. In the domesticated dog the use or need of the dew claw is negligible to nil. The front dew claws, like on a cat, were used as part of the method of holding down an animal while ripping chunks out with the teeth. A talon functioning at a different angle for holding. Also, the front dew claw can be used to clear the mouth of anything that may have stuck between the teeth, or to the roof of the mouth. When a modern day, dewclaw-less dog has something stuck in their mouth you will see them make the gesture with the inside of the front paw against the open mouth....this is an attempt to use the dewclaw to clear the object...they do not know the dew claw is no longer there, the action is instinctive.

There are a lot of breeds now that are born without the dew claws , front or rear. Somewhere along the line the gene got dropped....even among mixed breeds the dew claws are missing a good part of the time. Interesting isn't it :!:

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Post by Karen_P »

I thought the banding was such a great idea. The pups looked completely comfortable, and Blaze has a wonderful nub. I had a dobie once that was docked by a vet, and she actually had a bald spot on the end of her tail from the scar tissue....I don't know if her breeder waited longer than she should have to hav the tails done or what (the dog was a gift from my sister-in-law and it was her first and only litter).

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Post by Cariboo »

Just wondering, but...are some dogs born without tails, or with a stub?
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Barb Wright
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Post by Barb Wright »

Yes, the Brittany is one of the few breeds that does come with a natural bob tail, though obviously not always. And even the natural bob sometimes has to be shortened to the standard of no longer than 4 inches.

I don't know what the percentage rate is of natural bob occuring in litters. Maybe some of the breeders on the board have an idea what that is. I would be curious to know too :)

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Re: how is it done?

Post by Amicus »

Back in my early days of breeding, when I bred Boxers, I took the first litter to the vet to have their tails docked. He did the worst job!!!! The tail ends virtually ROTTED off, and they were sssoooooo scarred. I would never consider a vet again, and I believe banding is the only way to go. The ends heal so much nicer and cleaner, next to no scar tissue, nice and rounded. In fact, I do a lot of my own care now, and only use a vet when there is something wrong with an animal that I either feel I can't do, or that I can't get the equipment to perform. My animals are much healthier now. I have a hobby farm with all kinds of animals. Research and learn all you can to care for your animals yourself, they will be happier and healthier!!!!

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