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Barb Wright
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Post by Barb Wright »

Myra wrote:......And some vets now give vaccines to cats in their tails, since that's even "easier" to amputate than a leg.
Well, gosh-o-gee, I feel sooooo much better now...just amputate the tail instead of the leg, definitely an improvement, RIGHT ON!!! So, I just have to ask.....just what vet school are these people (terrorists) coming from that have the audacity and arrogance to call themselves a Doctor :evil: :evil:
RIP Sweet Cassie 4/98 - 3/13

Janice
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Post by Janice »

Ok Barb, cool down! Unfortunatly the vaccines are required by law. Its not the individual vets. Its the ones who are on the "board" who insist on them being adminsitered so they can "profit" on them yearly. These guys who make the decisions are making them based on how much cash they will get yearly. Its all about their bottom line. Yeah, it sucks.

I live in the most densly populated county in Florida where they hadn't seen a case of rabies in 60+ years. And yearly rabies were being required. That's why I checked the box "deceased" on my last dog.

The only thing we can blame the individual vets for is not standing up and fighting the ridiculus law makers.

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Post by Myra »

Maybe I'm being a bit of a Pollyanna, but here lately I get the feeling that a lot of vet's--even very traditional ones--are changing their attitudes and becoming much more willing to custom tailor vaccines to a particular pet's needs, taking into account the pet's age, general health, lifestyle (is it boarded often, taken to classes or the dog park frequently, or pretty much stays at home in it's own yard), and the health problems particular to the geographic area. Or at least those types of vets aren't nearly as hard to find as they used to be.

The problem I'm hearing about is that many boarding kennels, obedience and agility instructors, doggie day care operators, etc., are the ones who aren't willing to go along with reducing the number or frequency of vaccines (i.e., if the dog hasn't had all his vaccines within the past year, he ain't comin' to my kennel/class/facility).

I'm lucky that there are two pretty good boarding kennels within five miles of me, and both are willing to accept whatever vaccine protocol an individual dog's vet recommends. So if you bring the sheet from your vet that shows that Rover isn't due for another vaccine until 2010, that's okay with them. With the exception of bordetella, which they all seem to be sticklers about, and rabies which is required by law. But I think these two kennels are the exception rather than the rule.

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Post by Cariboo »

However with my last dog who would never have the chance to meet up with any wild animals here in the city, I just quit giving him rabies vaccines when he turned 5 years.
So, is it ok to stop giving the rabies vaccination??? Lucky will probably be going on the 3-year rabies vaccine next year, when he will be old enough. I didn't realize that there was an age issue in giving the 3-year...is it true that it's not safe to give to dogs under about a year or two old?
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Dave
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Post by Dave »

My outlook on this is that you might look into having titers (sp?) . Anyway these are blood levels to determine the antibody level . I actually had rabies vaccination for animal control and that's what we did . If you need a booster it is far less than giving the standard vaccination . 8) Dave

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Post by Cariboo »

My outlook on this is that you might look into having titers (sp?) . Anyway these are blood levels to determine the antibody level . I actually had rabies vaccination for animal control and that's what we did . If you need a booster it is far less than giving the standard vaccination . Dave
What's a titer? Also, what if your dog had a high antibody level...then what? :?
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Post by Karen_P »

Your vet can draw blood and send it out for titer tests. The lab checks the sample for the level of antibodies found...the higher, the better. There is a rule of thumb that the antibody level must be at or exceed a certain level to be considered effective.

There is growing support for the theory that vaccinations given after a certain age are no longer effective, and that so many of our animals are suffering from organ disease, cancer, epilepsy and other diseased that it's being attributed, in part, to over vaccinating (poor diet and environmental factors such as polution and toxins are some of the other factors).

I wish vets had to fully disclose the pros and cons of treatments before performing them, as our MD's are suppose to do.
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Post by Cariboo »

:) OK, thanks. What age would you guys guess to be the best time to stop the vaccinating? Is it just the rabies vaccine, or all vaccines in general??
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Janice
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Post by Janice »

I don't think there is any "age" to quit vaccinating, one should really have the titers done.

I stopped the rabies vaccine because I felt it wasn't necessary for my dog to have it knowing that he wouldn't come in contact with a rabid animal and I felt it was a health risk to keep the vaccine up year after year. Keep in mind what I was doing was illegal. To not vaccinate for rabies I believe is illegal in all states.

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Post by Liz H »

I have to chime in here. I live in Maryland and we have LOTS of rabies. Rabies in raccoons especially. And I live in the country where there are feral and semi-feral cats, and foxes - so I have to vaccinate my dogs in compliance with state and county regulations. Furthermore, I couldn't abide the thought of them sitting through quarantine. They DO enforce quarantine. Neighbor's dog bit my husband three times two years ago - and it went into quarantine and was subsequently surrendered. It didn't have rabies. Now, rather than a mongrel, they have two rottweilers and a poodle. Go figure. I would also be willing to bet those dogs have had no vaccinations. They get out regularly, and the last time I reported them, the animal control folks said their fine was up to $500.

But back to rabies. With the prevalence of rabies in our area of the country, I would consider it irresponsible of me not to ensure my dogs were protected. I also would not be able to license them or board them without the rabies protection.

The rant is herewith ended. :x
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Barb Wright
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Post by Barb Wright »

:lol: As rants go Liz, that was in the mild category :P I've written a couple rants, edited like mad, and still couldn't get them "postable" :wink:

Anyway, here's the thing with the Rabies "booster" shot.....it does absolutely nothing to increase the immunity of your dog to Rabies. The FIRST Rabies shot does that, if it is going to...no 100% guarantees even with the first one. But, for most dogs it does create the antibodies to resist the disease as intended. So, the ethics involved in giving additional shots yearly, bi-yearly, or tri-yearly is a very questionable practice. And rightly so, since the Rabies shot contains very harmful adjuvants and chemicals that are making so many of our dogs sick....cancer, seizures, organ damage, unacceptable behavior changes, just to name a few.

Many States are now changing the requirement to at least a tri-annual, and as well, many State Veterinary Boards (who are the power behind most regulations) are being mightily pressured to accept the change in protocol. The science, data, studies, etc. that have been going on and still are even more so, are proving that this has been a horrible abuse of vaccines. And many of the other "preventive" vaccines fall into this same category, useless and harmful to boot.

Some good news.....accepting a blood titer as evidence of acceptable immune antibody levels is coming into play more and more and hopefully will become sufficient evidence to support not being required to have the shot. Did you know this.....Vets and vet techs all of course have had a Rabies vaccination, but rather than yearly "boosters" they have blood titers done to check their immunity levels. So, if this is acceptable for them then why is it not acceptable for our dogs?????

Some States (just a couple) and Vet Boards are taking waiver requests under consideration also. This is good news as well. ALL vaccines state that they "should only be administered to a healthy dog". So, if your dog has some health issues, has had a blood titer showing rabies antibodies in an acceptable range level, then in theory you should be able to get a waiver. I hope this movement takes on a life of it's own....for now it is just individuals in some States putting the pressure on to review and redo legislation and regulation to reflect the recent and better scientific research, findings, and conclusions.

Whew, got through all that and stayed cool :shock: And I hope it gave you a view of "thinking outside the box" :)
RIP Sweet Cassie 4/98 - 3/13

Janice
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Post by Janice »

Good post Barb, and I do know that here in Florida we can get a waiver for the rabies vaccine. Hmmmm, I wonder if I can get a health waiver for Rolo since he tore the ligament in his knee!
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Post by Cariboo »

:) Yes, that was a wonderful post, Barb.

Well, I'm convinced. Will be going in to get a blood titer done for Lucky. Not my blood, Lucky's :lol: .

Also, the rabies vaccine doesn't really help?? Why do we renew them all the time, then? What's the point? :?

Oh, and an update on Lucky's lump: I noticed that it moves around...it's not really stable under the skin, you can sorta push it. I *think* it's smaller...but could be my imagination.
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Cariboo
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Post by Cariboo »

New update on the lump: It's shrinking!! Woohoo! In fact, I can't really feel it anymore, so YAY! :D :D :D

Thanks again everyone for helpin out!
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Dave
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Post by Dave »

I'm glad Lucky's bump is going away :D I had to jump in and say we vaccinate for Rabies because it's the law in all States . My particular county has been under Rabies quaratine two summers in a row . If a dog is picked up by animal controll and isn't vaccinated it is a mandatory 60 day isolation Quarantine :( It is really expensive so keep that in mind . I agree we need to press our vets into taking steps to change procedure and that's my rant :wink: 8) Dave

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