AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

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headtrip_honey
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by headtrip_honey »

Sorry, I have to vent somewhere where people will understand.

I live in a large, nice community, with several dogs and dog owners. Most are polite and well-behaved. I love my backyard neighbor and his dachsund Kirby, for example. However, there is one woman who just flouts normal dog etiquette.

She has an especially territorial Schnauzer. She lets this dog run free - she has no fence, no leash, and doesn't even attempt to control him.

Because of this, he thinks that every yard within three houses of his belongs to him. She will be puttering in her garden while he is ranging from one neighbor's yard to the next, barking and growling at anyone who comes near them. I myself have almost HIT him with my car SEVERAL times because she doesn't seem to care that he runs into the street.

One time I turned onto her/our street, and glanced over at her yard just to prepare myself - I didn't see her in her yard, so I breathed a sigh of relief - no dog today!

And then I had to SLAM on my brakes as the dog came running into the street from the other side of the street! As in, he was in her neighbor's yard, across the street from her house, and she wasn't even outside to watch him!

This evening I went for a run and I had to stop because the dog started barking at me and chasing me. She was holding the leash of her OTHER dog, a yorkie puppy, and yelling at the dog, trying to call it back. I yelled at her that it needs to be on a leash, but she either doesn't understand English (she's either Korean or Chinese...I think Korean because I would recognize Chinese) or pretends she doesn't so that she doesn't have to respond to people yelling at her to control her dog. (I have seen my neighbor with the dachshund talk to her, so she must know some English)

Anyway, I am thinking of writing her a letter, and enclosing it, along with a leash, in her mailbox. This is what I have:

"To Whom It May Concern:

Here is a leash. Put it on your dog.

It is against the law in Delaware to let a dog run free and out of control.

Your dog is a nuisance and a danger to your neighbors and itself. People cannot walk, run, drive or ride their bikes past your dog without it growling at, barking at, and chasing them.

On more than one occasion your dog has almost been HIT by a car because YOU do not have it under control and let it run into the street while you work in your yard.

The law in Delaware states:

“From sunset to sunrise, dogs must be
1) confined in an enclosure that prevents escape; or
2) firmly secured with a collar or chain or other device, SO THEY CAN’T STRAY FROM THE PREMISES; or
3) UNDER THE REASONABLE CONTROL OF SOME PERSON.

If a dog is running at large and bites someone, the owner or custodian of the dog is subject to civil liability, as well as a fine of $100 to $500 for the first offense, and $750 to $1,500 for the second and subsequent offenses.”

This is just what will happen to you under the law. This says nothing about how you will FEEL if your dog gets hit by a car and killed because you could not be bothered to put a leash on it.

Please, for your neighbor’s sake and for your dog’s safety: use a leash.

Sincerely,
A Neighbor"


If she doesn't know English, I think her husband must - he is the one that works after all, so maybe he can read it to her. Either way the leash will probably get my point across.

What do you think? Over the top? The dog hasn't actually snapped at or bitten anyone, just made itself a general nuisance. So I can't really report her to the authorities. And it's not the dog's fault she's neglectful, so I don't want the SPCA to take it and put it in a shelter.

I mean, we let our dogs run free in our front yard - but we have the Invisible Fence, so they can't go beyond its borders, and they never have. But this dog has on several times run into our yard and started growling at them! I don't want anything to escalate.

Gah. This is SO frustrating.
-Emily
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by Muddy Creek Britts »

:lol: :lol: If it wasn't a shnauzer, I'd swear you are my neighbor. Just kiddin'. :P

My dogs aren't that bad, but they will slip off if I turn my back for a minute. And my one neighbor is known to be a chronic warden caller. But I'm pretty much country about dogs around here. And some of the times, it's my neighbors that call the dogs without me knowing. We have plenty of dogs that come over to visit here unattended too. Some will bark at me, but just love playing with my dogs. I tell my neighbors that their dogs are allowed over anytime, and don't worry about them pooping in the yard....I clean up enough poop already that a couple more piles is no big deal.

But if I lived in the city or the suburbs, things would be different. That's why I wouldn't live there. BTW....my neighbor hasn't called the warden since I took over mail the maillady put in the wrong box. Sometimes just a small gesture of kindness can go further than escalating a situation. I've often had evil thoughts about getting her back. I'll leave it at that so I don't incriminate myself if she pisses me off again. :wink: :twisted:

I would worry about the pup getting hit by a car though. The barking could be cured by dropping a few tasty treats its way. I'm sure this was no help. Just try to be as "country" as you can. It's good for the heart. :wink:
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Barb Wright
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by Barb Wright »

First of all, it strikes me that your letter, though anonymous, is quite direct and polite, provides valuable information she may be unaware of, and should at least, hopefully, provoke some thought on her part. Personally, I would not inclose the leash which could be construed as a little insulting.

If you do not have a homeowners association that you could draw into this, then perhaps a couple of your neighbors who feel as you do could join with you and make a friendly visit with her to address your concerns for her dog....not jumping her for being a dumb s**t :roll: but emphasizing your worries about the welfare of the dog. Two or three people would be better than just one, not so much ganging up on her but rather illustrating that her neighbors in general are concerned about this. She may not care what you all think, anymore than she apparently cares not too much about what happens to her dog....just worth a try to see if you can connect with her.

Keep in mind also, that if she has another young pup coming along that that pup will no doubt join the older dog in doing the same "marauding", so your well meaning intervention now may save two dogs, not just one.

Guess that is about all I can think of....maybe some other thoughts from our board will help...hope you can resolve it...let us know how it goes :)
RIP Sweet Cassie 4/98 - 3/13

headtrip_honey
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by headtrip_honey »

Muddy Creek Britts wrote::lol: :lol: If it wasn't a shnauzer, I'd swear you are my neighbor. Just kiddin'. :P

My dogs aren't that bad, but they will slip off if I turn my back for a minute. And my one neighbor is known to be a chronic warden caller. But I'm pretty much country about dogs around here. And some of the times, it's my neighbors that call the dogs without me knowing. We have plenty of dogs that come over to visit here unattended too. Some will bark at me, but just love playing with my dogs. I tell my neighbors that their dogs are allowed over anytime, and don't worry about them pooping in the yard....I clean up enough poop already that a couple more piles is no big deal.

But if I lived in the city or the suburbs, things would be different. That's why I wouldn't live there. BTW....my neighbor hasn't called the warden since I took over mail the maillady put in the wrong box. Sometimes just a small gesture of kindness can go further than escalating a situation. I've often had evil thoughts about getting her back. I'll leave it at that so I don't incriminate myself if she pisses me off again. :wink: :twisted:

I would worry about the pup getting hit by a car though. The barking could be cured by dropping a few tasty treats its way. I'm sure this was no help. Just try to be as "country" as you can. It's good for the heart. :wink:
See, I've tried. That's the thing. This has been going on for years. I've tried politely talking to the woman, but she pretends (I suspect) to not know English, so she just literally walks away as I'm trying to talk to her. If you met me, you'd know I'm actually a very polite person - I hate confrontation. So it's not that I've offended her in the past or anything.

I've tried talking to the dog, calling it nicely, but it just starts growling and barking at me. The problem is, it thinks it's defending its territory when it's not on its territory. If it was just on its yard barking at passersby, yeah, it might get annoying, but that's what dogs do.

We've had dogs running free before, but these usually don't bother me because they're just pups out for a joy run. Yeah, I'll worry about them getting hit, but they are not aggressive to other dogs or people. This dog is. I mean, last night, the woman literally had to drag her dog away from me, all the while screaming at it in what I think must be Korean. That's not having good control of your dogs.

We had neighbors with Boxers which they walked off leash - no issues with them because they had great control of their dogs at all time.

And I haven't called any authority because a) he hasn't (to my knowledge) actually bitten someone, so I'm sure animal control or whoever would not think of it as priority and 2) it's not the dog's damn fault that she has no thought for its safety. And I know it's usually the dog that ends up suffering the most in these situations.


To Barb:

I've tried talking to her, but as I said, she pretends (I suspect) to not know English. She's walked away from me when I've tried to talk to her about her dog. And I do mean "talk," not yell at. We do have a homeowner's association, but it couldn't care less if it doesn't involve charging us some stupid fee to put up a new sign in the front of the development.

And what gets me is that she does walk the Yorkie pup on leash. That one, at least, seems well behaved. No matter how much the Schnauzer is barking and growling, it just stands there and doesn't do anything.



It is a tough situation. The reason I'd wanted to enclose the leash was not so much to be insulting but that in case she honestly can't read the letter, she might at least get the gist.
-Emily
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mkilcz
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by mkilcz »

Hmmm. I'm not convinced that a call to Animal Control isn't in order. I had two thoughts on this approach... 1.) calling them and asking how they would suggest handling the situation or 2) calling the next time the dog is on the loose and having them pay a visit to your neighbor (or leave a note on her door). Maybe she would respond better to an authority figure (since the friendly neighbor routine isn't working). It really bothers me that the dog is growling and somewhat aggressive. What happens if the dog feels threatened by some neighborhood child and bites? I can guarantee that the owner won't like the consequences (in any language!).
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by Muddy Creek Britts »

I think I'd try talking to the husband. Asian culture is quite different from ours. And, if she doesn't speak English (at least not too well), you can be pretty sure they are probably more Asian culturally than American. Right or wrong, that's just the way you've gotta look at it. And maybe have the man of the house go over and talk to your neighbor. Not because that's the way it should be, but your goal is to solve the dog problem, not to solve cultural differences and the dog issues. :wink: Kinda the way it would be with the Amish around here. I might think I'm just going over to talk to a female neighbor, but they'd take it like I'm peeing on the husband's leg. :lol:

If that is too distasteful to your sensibilities, AC is not a bad option. Unless the dog is severely neglected, they won't come and remove the dog on a first visit. But they can let it be known that this isn't a neighbor-neighbor spat any more. This is the State clearly stating what won't be tolerated. Then the ball is in their court.
Brian
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by Kerplunk105 »

I live on a dead end street in a neighborhood. Almost all the houses have at least one dog. My neighbor two doors up has at least, ('ive lost count), 6 Doxies. They sound exactly like your neighbors dog. She lets them out her front door to pee and poop on other peoples lawns. They are rarely ever even outside with them. They *do* have a fenced in yard! One of her dogs already died from getting hit by a car-two weeks later, they had a new puppy. I've called the police several times as well as my home owners assoc. The police cant do anything unless they see them off lead, (our township does have a leash law). There are no set leash laws with my HOA.

Her dogs are horrible too. They nip at us and at my dogs. Leena is terribly scared of them. They come onto our property when we are walking out the front door and bark at us, they come into the garage if its open and bark at us.

The letter is a great idea though. I may copy and change it a little.

I never let my dogs outside when I am not out with them. They are rarely even in the front lawn unless its going from car to house or house to car.

I guess she just thinks its okay because everyone has dogs. :roll: UGH.
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by rtropeano »

I think the letter is good and non-confrontational. It sorta like the training wheels program I have at my local shelter. Providing a leash is a great idea and if the dog doesn't wear a collar include one of those too.

Maybe expressing concern for the dog is a way to get through to her. If the letter doesn't work, maybe approaching the husband like Brian suggested might.

It's a tough situation.

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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by adele »

I would be annoyed if I received a letter like that and would not let it change my behaviour -- but I would be open to friendly discussion with a neighbour. Since your neighbour won't talk to you I'd go the AC route.

We live in the country where people think its okay to let their dogs run off their property. I hate it! Sorry Brian but being in the country is not an excuse for your dog to be on the road. Lola does not want to play with their dogs and there are certain houses where simply walking passed is a stressful situation because the dog might be out. It drives me nuts! My neighbours are otherwise good people so I won't make a big fuss but I sure wish they'd keep their dogs in their own yards.
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by Muddy Creek Britts »

Sorry Brian but being in the country is not an excuse for your dog to be on the road.
I don't let my dogs on the public road. We live on a deadend, gravel private drive. Only people on our "road" are the neighbors. The main road is a different story, I agree. Too many youngins think that is their personal speedway. We let the neighbors' dogs and kids on our property because it keeps them from having to walk on the public road. That stuff doesn't bother me. It's the people that move up here from the city and 'burbs that want to import their city rules and values on us that irritates me. Being "in the country" and being "country" are two different things. The first is a location, the latter an attitude....not being too precious and looking for something to be offended about. :wink:
Last edited by Muddy Creek Britts on Mon May 25, 2009 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by Muddy Creek Britts »

My main point is that Reason and Truth are best reached by examining a subject when we are in a state of tranquility, not in an emotional fit of Passion. That's the Romantic individualist in me. :P (see definition of Romantic individualism, particularly from Wordsworth's The Prelude) :wink: :lol:
Brian
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by headtrip_honey »

Muddy Creek Britts wrote:My main point is that Reason and Truth are best reached by examining a subject when we are in a state of tranquility, not in an emotional fit of Passion. That's the Romantic individualist in me. :P (see definition of Romantic individualism, particularly from Wordsworth's The Prelude) :wink: :lol:
I agree Brian, which is why I posted this letter here instead of first giving it to her. I know I can get really worked up about things, so I like to give myself time to stew before acting.

In this case, I was already pissed off before her dog started chasing me while I was on my run. My run hadn't gone well (kept being short of breath - allergy season has killed my respiratory system), so not only did I already have adrenaline rushing through my veins from running, but I was grumpy to boot. Add in a territorial schnauzer growling and barking at me? Oh man, it is ON.

I'm probably going to tone down the letter, find out their actual NAMES (hopefully), and deliver it as planned. And hopefully see if there's anything in the homeowner's association guidelines about dogs being off leash. We shall see.
-Emily
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by kat »

Even if AC can't "do" anything, they can document your call. It makes me so angry when, after a dog attack on a child, the neighbors all tell stories of the dog running loose, growling, etc but AC says they have never gotten any calls on the dog before. What if you have one or two neighbors that have also called and made complaints? Yours might be the call that gets them out there. OR, here's another thought: doesn't sound like she cares for the dog very well, a visit by AC might be in the dog's best interest. I vote you at least call AC and talk to them. Good luck.
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by Beth »

Go out armed with citronella spray, mace, or bear repellant. Won't take long for the dog to figure out who to avoid in the neighborhood if nothing else helps. Using treats, if treat motivated, may actually work as well. Sounds like the dog has not been properly socialized. I would go with treats first then hard core with spray if that failed. Nothing worse than a dog owner with blinders on unless it is a parent with blinders on!! Good luck!

headtrip_honey
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Re: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGH

Post by headtrip_honey »

Urgh.

More to the saga.

I have not left the letter yet...my parents are deliberating calling the Homeowner's Association, but they are lazy.

Anyway, yesterday I was walking Bree, and steeled myself for walking by her house. Mind you, I'm on the other side of the street, but that doesn't matter, because every house within 100 yds of their house is "their territory."

As I came into view of the house, I hear the barking start, and all of a sudden the YORKIE starts running towards us. This is the dog she normally has leashed. And it did have a leash on. Only her hand wasn't attached to it. (And I know she didn't just have it jerked out of her hand, because I watched it all happen)

So the little pup dashes into the middle of the road, by now the Schnauzer has caught up to it, both are barking and growling, and I realize that by moving I'm just creating a more interesting target. So I stop, tell Bree to sit, and she plunks her butt down and looks up at me balefully with eyes that just said, "What is their problem, Mom? Why are they freaking out?"

So the Yorkie stopped mid-street, neighbor lady (who I confirmed is Chinese...hoorah for whitepages.com) catches up to it, grabs the leash and tugs it away, screaming all the while at the Schnauzer, who keeps advancing towards us. I just started Bree walking again, glancing back to make sure the Schnauzer wasn't on top of us.

Luckily it lost interest once we reached the corner of the street and so it turned around and went home.


I have to say, it made me look like SUCH a good dog owner. Bree never barked back, growled, or even looked agitated. Although I have to say I make no promises for what she would have done if the Schnauzer got into her face and snapped at her. She's not aggressive, but she's defensive.

My dad said I missed an opportunity to say, "See how easy it is to control a dog when it's on a leash?"
-Emily
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